 |
| Who is Online |
|
In total there are 4 users online :: 0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 4 Guests
Registered Users: None
[ View complete list ]
Most users ever online was 142 on Wed Jun 27, 2007 12:15 pm
|
|
|
|
| Author |
Message |
|
| Madi's Dad |
 Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:05 pm |
 |
|
|
Virtuoso
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 107
Location: California, USA
|
My daughter wants to join girl scouts. I initially encouraged it until I looked over their mottos and such. They mention "God and country" which makes me shiver a bit. From what I understand is they don't push religion in general and its more about the individual troops and who runs them which determines how much religion is introduced but I am still leary. Anyone else have experience with girl/boy scouts?
Forgot to add I went to cub scouts and into boy scouts (dropped out soon after entering boy scouts) but I don't remember any references to religion. I think its harmless for the most part I just wanted to hear others stories for comparison. |
_________________
“It is an interesting and demonstrable fact, that all children are atheists and were religion not inculcated into their minds, they would remain so”
Ernestine Rose |
|
| Back to top |
 
|
| chickadee5 |
| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:59 pm |
|
|
|
Member Beyond Belief!
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 498
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
|
Good topic, and I was just about to post about it. My daughter just signed up for Girl Scouts as well, and I'm an assistant leader. We haven't had our first meeting yet, and I'm bothered by that pledge also. However-and some may call me a coward-I live in a very conservative area, and I'm thinking that I'm not going to rock the boat. I will mumble under my breath when I do the pledge with the girls, inserting the word "Law" for "God" or something like that. I wish I could change it to "Humanity" instead, but it would be difficult to mumble that...
Anyway, I c&p this from the Girl Scouts website:
The Girl Scout Promise
On my honor, I will try:
To serve God* and my country,
To help people at all times,
And to live by the Girl Scout Law.
The Girl Scout Law
I will do my best to be
honest and fair,
friendly and helpful,
considerate and caring,
courageous and strong, and
responsible for what I say and do,
and to
respect myself and others,
respect authority,
use resources wisely,
make the world a better place, and
be a sister to every Girl Scout.
* The word "God" can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one's spiritual beliefs. When reciting the Girl Scout Promise, it is okay to replace the word "God" with whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate. |
_________________
...Kelly... |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Recovering Catholic |
| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 8:24 pm |
|
|
Guru
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 289
Location: Michigan
|
Ok, this is my area! I am a very active member of the Girl Scouts, lead two troops, and am the troop organizer for my elementary school. So...
The Girl Scouts DO NOT discriminate. It is up to the individual leader whether or not to include "god" in the promise, and it is even "allowed" to leave "god" out of the pledge of alegience. Homosexuals and atheists are welcome in GS (unlike Boy Scouts). My atheism is no secret, all of my parents know, and it isn't an issue at all. There are religious awards that can be earned, but they are done on an individual basis, not as a troop. Our founder, Juliette Low, was a christian, but she was open to sharing the scouting experience with all girls, and was very adamantly against discrimination toward anyone.
My son is a cub scout. His den leader quit without notice in November, and I sort of took over everything until our boys could find a new den. The pack master asked me to be the den leader since I was doing such a fantastic job with the boys (his exact words). I told him that unfortunately, I wasn't good enough for the Boy Scouts. He didn't understand, so I said "I am atheist, so the Boy Scouts exclude me from membership and any leadership positions. Sorry, but your organization won't take me, no matter how good I would be at it." He just had a shocked look on his face. I am not sure if it was because of the bigotry of the organization that he never really considered before, or if it was about my being an atheist and he was trying to reconcile that with his opinion that I was a good, moral, and upstanding person with strong values.
Either way, Girl Scouts is an absolutely wonderful organizatin that can offer your daughter a lot of positive experiences. Maybe we need a scouting forum... this comes up often enough that a lot of parents may need guidence, and I am happy to talk about anything related to Scouts. |
_________________
"religion is an utterly human-created construct, reflective of nothing but our hopes and fears set in the amber of our ignorance." ~~Dale McGowan |
|
| Back to top |
|
| chickadee5 |
| Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 11:08 pm |
|
|
|
Member Beyond Belief!
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 498
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
|
| Thanks for your post! I'm doing my online training right now! |
_________________
...Kelly... |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Madi's Dad |
| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:22 am |
|
|
|
Virtuoso
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 107
Location: California, USA
|
Thanks RC! That makes me feel tons better. My wife actually was considering starting a troop since all the troops in our area are currently full and we've only gone to a few co-op meetings. Knowing that we can do that and have a bit of secular autonomy is comforting.  |
_________________
“It is an interesting and demonstrable fact, that all children are atheists and were religion not inculcated into their minds, they would remain so”
Ernestine Rose |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Recovering Catholic |
| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 9:49 am |
|
|
|
Guru
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 289
Location: Michigan
|
There are some great science Try-Its, too! My troop is spending the night at the Ann Arbor Hands On Museum this spring. Last year, we spent the night at the Detroit Zoo. There are so many great opportunities with Scouts that I never would have been able to expose my kids to otherwise.
Starting a troop is a lot of work, but it really pays off in the end. Dads can be leaders, too! I really feel like a mentor to my girls. PM me if you or your wife want more info on leading, or starting a new troop.
Dale... can we get a Scouting forum? There really is a TON of info to share, and understanding how atheists can fit into the Scouting movement is a huge parenting issue. When I signed Justin up for Boy Scouts, I told them that I am an atheist, and would not sign any paperwork that declared my intent to discriminate against anyone, or promised to participate in spiritual programs. There was no form to sign... only the regisration, and that was completely lacking in any religious declarations or pledges. I am changing perceptions one person at a time, and my son absolutely loves his den. Boy Scouts National might not appreciate me, but I am going to do my part to break down barriers and help Boy Scouts return to the original mission that Baden-Powell set for the organization, not the quasi-religious club it has become. |
_________________
"religion is an utterly human-created construct, reflective of nothing but our hopes and fears set in the amber of our ignorance." ~~Dale McGowan |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Peeper's Mom |
| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:02 am |
|
|
|
Enlightener
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 88
|
| My daughter is in 'Earth Scouts' instead. Luckily, we're in an area where a pretty strong conscious living group exists and they started up a chapter of Earth Scouts for the kiddos. I love it, it's non-religious, it fits our humanist views, and it's not gender specific. |
_________________
Jennie
Mom to the Peeper and Buddyman |
|
| Back to top |
|
| chickadee5 |
| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 7:14 pm |
|
|
|
Member Beyond Belief!
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 498
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
|
| Earth Scouts sounds very cool! I'm betting there isn't a chapter in my area, but what a great idea! |
_________________
...Kelly... |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Dale |
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:21 am |
|
|
Superhumanist
Joined: 14 Feb 2007
Posts: 672
Location: Atlanta
|
What a *great* thread!
1. Yes, I've heard the same about Girl Scouts. They go out of their way to be non-discriminatory, and ought to shame the BSA in the process.
2. Earth Scouts looks FANTASTIC! Here's the home page link, and here's their self-description. I've never heard of this group before, but I think we'll definitely want to include them in the second PBB.
3. RC, I'll think about making a new forum for scouting. That really does make sense. In the meantime, you all might want to check out Scouting For All, which is working on the BSA from the inside.
4. And yes, BSA experiences vis-a-vis discrimination differ considerably depending on the local troop. Read Margaret Downey's piece in PBB for an example of that. |
_________________
Dale McGowan
Author/editor, Parenting Beyond Belief and Raising Freethinkers |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Madi's Dad |
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:02 am |
|
|
|
Virtuoso
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 107
Location: California, USA
|
I found this site which seems to be related to girl scouts.
http://www.girlsgotech.org/ |
_________________
“It is an interesting and demonstrable fact, that all children are atheists and were religion not inculcated into their minds, they would remain so”
Ernestine Rose |
|
| Back to top |
|
| BornAgainHeathen |
| Posted: Wed Jan 23, 2008 2:51 pm |
|
|
|
Enlightener
Joined: 22 Oct 2007
Posts: 62
Location: H-town
|
Count me in on the Girl Scouts. I was active from Brownies through Cadets, and I had wonderful secular troop. Our troop leader, also my best friend's mom, made science/nature projects a priority (she was also a chemistry professor). One of the coolest "camps" I went to was a genetics camp at the University of Utah for junior high and high school girls. Amazing oppurtunities for impressionable young girls 
The Earth Scouts look great, hope they'll catch on. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
| Madi's Dad |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:45 pm |
|
|
|
Virtuoso
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 107
Location: California, USA
|
ok, my wife and another mom decided to break off and form their own troop. I will surely be drafted as some sort of assistant, haha.
My wife more or less rides the fence on religious issues and I have no solid evidence on which direction, if any, the other mom gravitates. I want to bring up the issue of "God" in the motto or whatever but I am afraid to for somewhat obvious reasons. What annoys me the most is I feel its a rather trivial issue but at the same time I am afraid it could easily be blown out of proportion. My wife tends to shy away from making religion an issue mainly because it would not be fair for our daughter to be shunned by families that feel strongly about it. I don't blame her at all but at the same time I think we should stand up. Its not about us its about the kids and I for sure believe that they have no set beliefs so it shouldn't even be included in their activities.
Any suggestions? No hurry as the scouts have the summer off so we won't be getting started for a few months I think. |
_________________
“It is an interesting and demonstrable fact, that all children are atheists and were religion not inculcated into their minds, they would remain so”
Ernestine Rose |
|
| Back to top |
|
| chickadee5 |
| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 11:17 pm |
|
|
|
Member Beyond Belief!
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Posts: 498
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
|
I am now the leader of my daughters Brownie troop, and I have to admit that if I am leading the girls in the Girl Scout promise ("to serve God and my country"), then I do say "god". In my head it's a small "g" god, and it really means "people". If I'm not leading, and can fade into the background, then I skip right over that word. If I had older girls, and knew the parents well, I might do differently. However I have 1st graders, and I know only a couple of the parents personally.
I did send a printout of the promise and law home with the girls on the first day with the disclaimer at the bottom that they include in their materials (* The word "God" can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on one's spiritual beliefs. When reciting the Girl Scout Promise, it is okay to replace the word "God" with whatever word your spiritual beliefs dictate.)
I wish it weren't an issue at all, I wish that one word wasn't there, but it is. I'm glad they include that disclaimer, and I'm sure if they tried to remove the word altogether, there would be a flurry of controversy. However I love the organization, and their mission, so I can overlook that. |
_________________
...Kelly... |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Recovering Catholic |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:17 am |
|
|
|
Guru
Joined: 15 Feb 2007
Posts: 289
Location: Michigan
|
| When I do orientations with new leaders,I say precisely what chickadee5 posted. I skip the word, but my daughter says it (mostly so she can recite along with the other girls and not have to concentrate so hard at remembering it.) We don't say grace before snack,although some troops do. Girl Scouts offers religious awards, but luckily, they are handled between the parents and the pastor of their church/temple/etc. The troop leader is out of the loop. I let my parents know that those awards are an option, but no one has ever mentioned an interest in them, and I have two troops that I lead, not to mention the 10 I oversee as a Troop Organizer for our school. Anyway, I really wouldn't make it an issue. Our job as leaders is to give the girls more responsibility to take over leadership each year, so they need to learn how to work out these issues on their own. By the time they're in middle school,they should be pretty much running their own troop, with adults in the role as advisor. I would focus instead in field trips to museums and science centers. You won't get anywhere with discussions on religion and god, but you will plant seeds of knowledge and critical thought by making science education available to them. |
_________________
"religion is an utterly human-created construct, reflective of nothing but our hopes and fears set in the amber of our ignorance." ~~Dale McGowan |
|
| Back to top |
|
| Madi's Dad |
| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:00 pm |
|
|
|
Virtuoso
Joined: 07 Jan 2008
Posts: 107
Location: California, USA
|
Recovering Catholic wrote: You won't get anywhere with discussions on religion and god, but you will plant seeds of knowledge and critical thought by making science education available to them.
Excellent point RC. Thanks! I'll try not to sweat it. |
_________________
“It is an interesting and demonstrable fact, that all children are atheists and were religion not inculcated into their minds, they would remain so”
Ernestine Rose |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
All times are GMT - 5 Hours
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
| |
