I know just enough about Islam to embarrass myself at Ramadan parties. Half of what I learn confirms Islam’s common ground (good and bad) with Judaism and that other one.
That common ground is especially fun when evangelical grandma takes the Belief-o-Matic Quiz and learns she’s 70 percent Muslim.
Then there are the differences, and they can go pretty deep. While cruising a webpage titled Effective Islamic Parenting, I came across this intriguing difference in a list of “General Laws of Development”:
An infant child comes into the world perfectly good and only becomes other than perfectly good while growing into adulthood due to the influences upon him/her during their years of development.
Compare to a passage I’ve quoted before from evangelical radio minister John MacArthur in his book Successful Christian Parenting:
The truth is that our children are already marred by sin from the moment they are conceived. The drive to sin is embedded in their very natures. All that is required for the tragic harvest is that children be allowed to give unrestrained expression to those evil desires.
In other words, children do not go bad because of something their parents do. They are born sinful, and that sinfulness manifests itself because of what their parents do not do.…There’s only one remedy for the child’s inborn depravity: The new birth — [to be 'born again'].
Anyone out there with enough knowledge of Islam to confirm that it does not include a doctrine of inherent human sinfulness? If so, it’s a pretty fundamental difference, and one I did not know.
In Islam, you’re good until your not, there’s no going back. No forgiveness and you are judged by your wrongdoings. There is no forgiveness, you murder people you shouldn’t and you need to do something really good to make up for it… like become a martyr.
In Christianity you are born evil and sinful, blighted by original sin, and you must confess your sins to be forgiven. If you murder 10 people you shouldn’t have and drop to your knees you’re forgiven.
Also, I notice you have a picture of the Ka’aba the black stone of Mecca. It will take in some of your sins for you and testify before Allah in the hereafter on your behalf (it’s turned black due to all the sin its absorbed). So that’s a good way to atone and shift the balance more towards the good side.
I think the the underlying message here isn’t that Islam is good. Rather the depraved nature of some evangelical Christian teachings, are so bad that they make marginal teachings like those of Islam seem good in comparison.
If you do bad things, don’t do them anymore. You can’t fix the stuff you’ve done, but you can avoid doing them again, and you can make the world a better place. Learn from your mistakes and own up to them.
You don’t need a silly religion telling you such things dressed up in talks of sin and damnation. While a religion blaming you for stuff you didn’t do (Eve and that blasted fruit) and demanding that you be contrite about it right away and subject yourself to silly rituals is even *more* silly… it doesn’t make reality not reality.
Comment: Tatarize – 30. November 2008 @ 5:55 pm
Interesting, Tatarize, thanks for that. So a different recipe, but the sin casserole comes out the same in the end. I might have to get my hands on Karen Armstrong’s Islam: A Short History. I’m intrigued by the way each religion mirrors its founding and perpetuating culture — all rooted in the same human shortcomings, but expressing them differently.
Comment: Dale – 30. November 2008 @ 7:18 pm
I’ve realized there’s a lot I don’t know about Islam as well. I’ve learned more that many westerners likely know thanks to some professors who made a point of giving their students a basic knowledge of the faith, but there’s a lot more to it as there are with any long-standing faith.
A few months ago I remembered hearing that taking photos of the Ka’aba is pretty discouraged, so I went looking for all the photos of it I could. Turns out there’s been a couple instances of that center getting flooded out, it’s cleaned out inside periodically in a big ceremony, you usually see it with a big cloth around it unless it’s time to clean it, one corner has a big black stone set into a golden ring which is likely a meteorite that was worshipped before Mohammed’s time, and the opposite corner (if I remember right) has been broken at one point (supposedly to allow for the miraculous entrance of a wife of the big Mo to give birth in there) and has been patched with concrete that breaks off from time to time.
The building has also apparently had different shapes in different ages.
Comment: carpespasm – 01. December 2008 @ 1:03 am
I’m a long-time lurker, but registered to answer the question on the nature of original sin in Islam. I am agnostic but was raised in a Muslim country where Islamic Studies is part of the K-12 school curriculum.
As far as Original Sin goes, the Islamic perspective is that Adam and Eve were both forgiven by God after their disobedience, and that leaving paradise was not a punishment but the next step in the divine plan.
Referring to the comment by Tatarize above, I’ve never encountered the notion that “In Islam, you’re good until your not, there’s no going back. …. There is no forgiveness, you murder people you shouldn’t and you need to do something really good to make up for it… like become a martyr.”
Based on what I was taught, God forgives almost all sins provided one admits one’s error, seeks God’s forgiveness, and makes a genuine effort at reformation. (The one exception is worshiping any entity other than the One True God which is supposedly unforgivable, but since it’s possible for polytheists to convert to Islam and ultimately go to heaven, there seems to be some flexibility on the subject. This point was never quite clear to me.)
Lastly, I googled “forgiveness in islam”, and found a link with a number of quotes from the Koran that seem to back me up: http://www.islam-usa.com/Forgiveness.htm
I disagree with the religion of my childhood on a number of points, but the nature of forgiveness in Islam isn’t one of them. It always struck me as more sensible than forgiveness by grace on one hand and ritual confession on the other. You mileage may vary
I hope this answers your question. If you have any more, please let me know. I’m no expert (heck, I’m not even a “believer”) but I’ll try to dig up some resources.
Comment: Bob The Mole – 01. December 2008 @ 8:14 am
Thanks, Bob! That’s very helpful. If that’s the case, it does seem to be an improvement over the Christian scheme.
Comment: Dale – 01. December 2008 @ 8:21 am
peace Dale,
the irony of the situation is that the people (like Tartarize) who really should be embarrassed about spewing falsehood in the name of islam do so without a moments hesitation.
the quotation from “effective islamic parenting” is accurate. Bob actually presents a pretty accurate picture. islam teaches that god created everything from stars, trees and animals to humankind in the state of “islam” (literally “submission to god”,i.e. everything in creation submits to and obeys god’s commands perfectly). humans are distinguished above other creatures because they have been given the gift of free will. they can exercise their will to submit to god or they can choose to go astray.
islam rejects the concept of “original sin”. adam and eve transgressed the boundaries set by god, they recognized the wrong they had committed, sincerely repented and were forgiven.
(002:037)
Thereupon Adam received words [of guidance] from his Sustainer, and He accepted his repentance: for, verily, He alone is the-Acceptor of Repentance, the Dispenser of Grace.
sin cannot be inherited in islam. each person is individually accountable before god for their personal beliefs and actions.
(004:111)
And whoever commits a sin only earns it against himself. And Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.
because mankind is not inherently sinful and because each person must account for their actions individually there is no question of salvation through the sacrifice of another
(039:007)
If ye reject (Allah), Truly Allah hath no need of you; but He liketh not ingratitude from His servants: if ye are grateful, He is pleased with you. No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another. In the end, to your Lord is your Return, when He will tell you the truth of all that ye did (in this life). for He knoweth well all that is in (men’s) hearts.
god is absolutely just and he does not do the least injustice to anybody.
(041:046)
Whoever works righteousness benefits his own soul; whoever works evil, it is against his own soul: and thy Lord is not in the least unjust to His Servants.
anybody who believes in god and sincerely seeks god’s mercy then god has promised him forgiveness as he forgave our father adam (peace be upon him). he says:
(039:053)
Say, “O My servants who have transgressed against themselves [by sinning], do not despair of the mercy of Allah . Indeed, Allah forgives all sins. Indeed, it is He who is the Forgiving, the Merciful.”
(012:087)
surely none despairs of Allah’s mercy except the unbelieving people.
the greatest sin according to islam is to associate partners with god. this is the only unforgivable sin. god says in the qur’an:
(004:048)
Indeed, Allah does not forgive association with Him, but He forgives what is less than that for whom He wills. And he who associates others with Allah has certainly fabricated a tremendous sin.
thus, if a person were to die in a state of “shirk” (associating partners with god) he will not be forgiven. however, anybody who repents before death takes him, and returns to the worship of god alone then he has hope to be forgiven. this applies even to apostates from the faith. god informs them of a great torment in the hereafter except
(003:089)
Except for those who repent after that and correct themselves. For indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
i hope this helps.
Comment: khany – 01. January 2009 @ 1:25 am