Comments on: spare the rod (and spare me the rest)

By: Response to “spare the rod” post at PBB…. « Mom’s a religious nut & Dad was an atheist

Thu, 25 Oct 2007 06:10:57 +0000

[...] What sobering posts over on the “Parenting Beyond Belief” blog – called “spare the rod (and spare me the rest)“, and “responses to “spare the rod”. He [...]

By: leslie

leslie — Mon, 22 Oct 2007 03:31:46 +0000

The rod is also a unit of measure, and rather than think of the rod as a stick with which to hit a child, it can be thought of as a way to “measure” them.
Hold your child to a standard of measure, or they will become spoiled.

By: Dale

Dale — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:09:24 +0000

What scares me most about that man is his growing influence. He is now considered by many to be THE presidential kingmaker for evangelicals: http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=520130

By: Jody

Jody — Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:54:16 +0000

Darth Dobson scares the hell out of me.

I love the Faber/Mazlish books on these topics. But Playful Parenting is also excellent…..

By: Wildflower

Wildflower — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 18:18:48 +0000

I’m with you, Dale. Spanking and corporal punishment are not effective. I base this on three things:
1. I have (mostly) successfully raised 2 sons to adulthood. Spanked them some when they were very young and I was very active in the church and it was basically encouraged. Quickly realized that it doesn’t work. There are many other more effective types of discipline that you pointed out. Early bedtime and taking away privileges work much better. Even 3 year olds can have favorite toys taken away.

2. Over 12 years in child welfare. Yes, I was one of those meanies who took people’s kids away when they abused or neglected them. Again, I saw how ineffective spanking is.

3. Violence is not the answer. I abhor violence. Hitting is not an option at our house.

Thanks for the great article. I actually read it first on the IHS website.
Ang

By: Dale

Dale — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:59:25 +0000

Dale, from what age, do you think, can a child be reasoned with? How does one explain, reasonably, the benefits of a reasonable bedtime, or negative effects of just one more chocolate, to a three-year-old?

I’d say it depends on what’s being reasoned about and how advanced the child is. My own kids varied wildly in their abilities to be reached by reason at three. Delaney was capable of processing your examples pretty well at that age. Erin was not.

The two examples you give deal in abstract conditionals (”If you eat another chocolate you will feel sick,” “If you stay up late you will be tired and cranky in the morning.”) Those are beyond many three-year-olds. But more concrete conditionals (”Don’t hit your brother. How would you feel if he hit you?” “Don’t climb on that trellis. Think about how scary it would be to fall!”) are well within their grasp.

The larger point is that even if reason fails to reach a three-year-old, whacking is a foolish, lazy substitute. There are ALWAYS consequences of equal or greater effectiveness. Three-year-olds are in Kohlberg’s first (fear of punishment), second (hope of reward and/or third (social disapproval) stage of moral development. Each of these come with a huge selection of effective consequences without the lasting negatives of spanking.

By: Theo

Theo — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:30:34 +0000

Dale, from what age, do you think, can a child be reasoned with? How does one explain, reasonably, the benefits of a reasonable bedtime, or negative effects of just one more chocolate, to a three-year-old?

By: blotzphoto

blotzphoto — Thu, 18 Oct 2007 15:23:46 +0000

Ah yes… the noble art of spanking. My mother, bless her heart, grew up in a “spare the rod” household, but firmly believed it was wrong so she never ever spanked us. In fact she was right dogmatic about it , and once threatened to sue the local school board if they allowed corporal punishment to be used on her kids.

Do they still do that in schools? When I was in elementary school many of the teachers proudly displayed their paddles. Certain teachers were legendary for their ferocity with the paddle. Mr. Menze’s device was said to have a coarse sandpaper surfaced and was guaranteed to draw blood.

Always struck me as an awful way to treat kids at school. It never worked. the kids who needed serious correction, the bullies, were the kind of kids who shook it off. They probably faced worse at home. Meanwhile us nice but screwy kids were terrified. I had it done twice and I immediately told them where the WMD’s were.

Ok done ramblin. I’ll never spank my kids.
Might whack em upside the head every once in awhile.
A little attitude adjustment (ala Hank Williams Jr.) never hurt anybody.

Just kidding…
really…
Why is Childrens Services at my door?